Did any of those other changes remove a major source of income for CCP?

I don't get what you mean by the time card statement and I don't think the recent key broadcasting change will affect their bottom line much.

The guy/multiboxer using isk to pay for his account, has no bearing on the amount of PLEX being generated by the players that buy them for RL money. so how does that affect the bottom line sonny? Will only affect the supply/demand in game. that & a sorebutt from the guy that can't multibox 30 miner accounts in his rented 0.0 space anymore.

So one post your asking if this will affect the bottom line of CCP (which is what my response was too),

Now you are arguing about supply and demand, and have somehow projected that i think 400k accounts are plexed? the 0.2 is using your 1000 Unsubs/400k accounts. Its silly because you don't understand?

I take it you are a butthurt alt of a multiboxer, Gotcha.

EDIT:



Who exactly is proposing that plex is a 100% safe investment?

You don't want to wait a little till beginning of next year? With all the multibox alt accounts running out of subscription, i would assume, we'll see a slight price drop in january, don't you think?

The thing is: all those chars on firesale will have to be dedicated to an account. I very much doubt they are being bought to sit in an unsubbed account. Because of this, I do not expect the ammount of subbed accounts to drop significantly in the grand scheme of things.

Listing one link to someone fireselling his chars is by no means proof of pending PLEX market price crash. Even with the news out on the isboxer nerf for quite some time, PLEX prices have not even dropped below the last spike peak (the summer one). That price peak was at about 820 million at it's height. We are still well above that atm.

I'm pretty sure that if you buy PLEX now, you'll be able to sell it within a year for 200+ million profit. If you're daytrading PLEX in jita atm, well, that's another story, but I'm not in the PLEX trade for daytrading in general. I just funnel "excess" isk into PLEX, turning it into more isk at my leisure. The worst thing that can happen is that I end up with a bunch of PLEX to sub my accounts with if they become worthless in terms of isk. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me...

toad are u saying plex prices will drop and ppl should sell them

CCP has stated that it does intervene in PLEX markets if prices rise too fast (they're not aiming at any set price though), they have several tools for this. 1) they can sell PLEX at a discount, this has happened numerous times before. 2) they revealed that they have taken PLEX from banned accounts and dropped them into the market to stop price spikes. They did not create them out of thin air though.


As soon as your cash becomes PLEX, it has no actual cash value anymore, you cannot revert it back to cash (legally at least). You can use it for things that would otherwise COST you cash instead (subs, fanfest tickets and whatnot) but it's never ever going to be cash again in a non-eula violating way.

So at that point, you have two main values left on your PLEX: a non set isk value in game and a set value of 30 days worth of subscription. The isk value has only gone up in the lifetime of PLEX (all 'crashes' so far have been little more than corrections after large price spikes after which the upward trend continued again). As for the ingame use of PLEX, only more options have been added (dual training, fanfest tickets etc etc) and the 30 days of subscription has remained the same. I very much doubt CCP is going to tamper with the number of subscription days on existing PLEX ever.

Knowing all this, I feel very safe with my PLEX investment both isk wise and playtime wise. For things to work out badly isk wise on my current PLEX stock (which is laughably small by the standards of the big boys) prices would have to drop below 600 million isk and stay there. That's roughly where they were a year ago.

Again, I would not mind lower PLEX prices, hell, if they'd hit rock bottom I'd be delighted even and prolly get several more accounts.

Edit: just after writing this I saw I sold a PLEX that I was high balling for just under 900 million

Then you were a bit naive. Isboxer has been borderlining botting for a long time, I expect them to enforce cache scraping too in the not too distant future for instance, which has been ignored for years now.

And if you think that there is a realistic chance that CCP is going to nerf PLEX intrinsic value without compensation for existing stocks, you're a bit naive as well. I'm not even sure it would be possible legally. Yesyes, we know PLEX is an ingame item and fall under the EULA and by that definition they can do whatever they want with it but it would be interesting to see how that holds up in court in a class action law suit. It would be much the same as buying a gift card for 20 bucks which then get's turned into a gift card for 10 bucks. Even if it were possible it would **** off so many ppl that I suspect the Summer of Rage will be dwarfed by it.

You're right if you're saying that it CAN happen but you're wrong if you think that it is likely to happen. Pretty much everything else in EVE is a much more risky investment as they don't represent an intrinsic value so important as the stuff you can do with PLEX. There are countless examples of nerfs and buffs to pretty much everything in game, there are none (0, that is zero) for PLEX.

So again: based on that knowledge, what do you think is the safest investment in EVE? *Any item* or PLEX?

Toad, do you really believe this rubbish you're spouting?

I think the fact that because you took Makhpella's observation as an affront to being American and as a personal insult, you very much verified his opinion.

If you bought 1T of PLEX one year ago and sold it a few weeks ago you would have 1.544T

If you bought 1T of Tritanium one year ago and sold it a few weeks ago you would have 1.165T

It's not just about what you buy and sell, but when you buy and sell it too.

Also these:

http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=34#history
http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?type_id=29668

There are people putting up buy orders for hundreds of PLEX at 800m over the last few days, it only briefly drops below 800m as those get filled up. The fatcats seem to think this is a time to buy, and I wouldn't expect it to go lower than this either.

toad is right guys

tiiiimber (fred flintstone voice)

sell them now or be dunked by ..... . ....... toad

thats right, the toad ! the guy who in his wisdom, predicted this would happen

please, step forward if you took a dive on this based solely of "what you read on the forums" Give toad the satisfaction, that had you read butthurt retorical post #24432 you would have avoided this!

"just buy more
from the store"

that rhymes!

go go 500m!

I figure the best theory is that you would want to own an asset that took a fixed amount of player TIME to produce and of course had utility enough that players still would take the time to produce it.

ISK costs less and less to gather over time due to mud inflation... (and CCP does a good job at not letting it get out of hand)

The risk with Plex is that they may increasingly feel forced to make game time cheaper and cheaper in real $ ... and then hope to sell just as many plex for people to instead fund more accounts or spend the same $100 to buy a carrier (or whatever equates to $100 these days) buying 16 plex at 6$ a piece instead of 6 plex at $16$ a piece.

They may discover that the game time can be cheaper in real $ but make it up in volume ....

That might sound weird but plenty of FtP games really aren't free at all for most players and only a portion of what they pay per month is for their "premium" subscriptions

I know FtP ruins games..

...we're talking investment here though, not what we want.

If we want to play EVE markets in a way that will make our hordes as valuable as possible compared to the average ISK riches of other players.....get ahead in comparative ISK wealth... thinking of the META issues concerning financial motivations can effect the value

... time value .. 1 hour of a human players time..that's what I'd like to keep parity with....

..but I'll take the risk with Plex and characters even if I think they'll 1/2 life once....

Why ? The make things like Invention easier to do and suddenly my horde of expanded cargo bays falls in ISK and ISK doesn't buy the plex it used to.. AND Plex don't cost the Dollars they used to...
... that's a triple whammy loss

I'll never RMT my isk.. those are CCP assets...but I will score the value of my game holdings in dollar equivalent to gage whether I'm getting ahead or falling behind.

i really do think that toads avatar has ALOT to do with ppl instantly dis-agreeing with him.

if you want to stock plex (for some stupid reason), put up buy orders for 500m & wait.

Well sort of,

I think I'm saying what you are another way. Even if you don't agree with my thinking as I expressed it (in my wordy manner) I do agree with exactly what you are saying.

"we cannot control the supply or utility" Exactly (I explained why I thought supply would increase for Meta reasons and utility would become less scarce)

BUT

I wouldn't call it a "horrible investment" because it is as good or better as the next best ideas I have for PASSIVE (like unsubscibed holdings type of passive) parking of game assets. I anticipate game time coming down to maybe $10 a month

... so I know I'll lose half of the theoretical RMT value...but I don't see doing much better with other assets and at least I see a bottom.


Trit ? yes that does make a fair bit of sense to me. that might be a better bet than holding characters or game time tokens... maybe I will put 1/4 of my game assets there.

My main theory was that Player Time ingame.. not character time, is the greatest constant and so an asset that will take just as much time to collect in the future as the present would be the best investment. I'd need to trust that it doesn't become easier to mine Trit per player hour...or that the game requires less trit but some players continue to collect it as a by product of some other activity, and that is something I am wary about.

You've just made unsubstantiated claims, most likely pulled out of your arse.

I'm just here to make ISK, whether that's through PLEX or otherwise (my investments are more diverse than just PLEX) and so far I'm doing okay. If PLEX goes down, that just means Fanfest and EVE Vegas are cheaper for me. You're the one with a vendetta against PLEX and shouting random things.

You said inflation, Eyjo said deflation, now you say stagnation.

and less than 2 hours ago it was :

797 / 780 in Jita, (now (814 / 792)
780 / 764 in amarr (now 814 / 764)

Dodixie is still at (797 / 768)

would love to hear from toadfish the hitchhiker to get a professional opinion.

lets see toad wiggle out of this one.

Also:-

Can someone tell me what is Toad trying to say? I cant comprehend it. Should I sell my freighter full of plex or should I undock it?

btw: It is Charon with T2 cargohold expanders.